title says it all :) great running bike... new plugs, gel battery fully charged in like new condition ... once it starts, runs perfect.
Sometimes it will take 15 trys on the starter switch before it starts. more when its cold out.
any suggestions?
Sometimes it will take 15 trys on the starter switch before it starts. more when its cold out.
any suggestions?
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Sat, February 2, 2008 - 11:26 AMhow's the choke? -
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Sat, February 2, 2008 - 4:44 PMain't no choke ... its got "tricklers" :) a little button you push (one on each carb) to let a small amount of petrol into the carbs. which seems to make it even harder to start, quite frankly ... ???
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Sat, February 2, 2008 - 9:19 PMDirty and or unbalanced carbs might be an issue here. Just mu shot in the dark. -
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Sun, February 3, 2008 - 11:41 AMThose ticklers release gas into the carbs so there is fuel in the lines to feed the engine. If there's no gas, there's nothing to light up. Of course, if you release too much gas, you flood the carbs.
Yes, getting them cleaned and sync'd is a very good idea. -
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Sun, February 3, 2008 - 11:46 AMAnd compared to a more modern motorcycle, a /5 is a little sluggish to start in cold weather. -
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Sun, February 3, 2008 - 12:55 PMThanks you guys :) ... bike has only 26,000miles on it and everything including carbs seem really clean ... Its full of 91 octane with some octane 104 boostr mixed in. I'm thinking more like points or timing. Of course, then it might run a little funky, which it doesn't. Hmmm... I guess I'll just take a few things apart, check it out, put it back together ... and see if it helps! -
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Mon, February 4, 2008 - 8:04 AMPoints would indeed be my next bet. They were a tad notorious before they changed in the 80's to th Hall Canister...
Here is a great article from the airheads on ignition systems...
www.airheads.org/content/view/221/98/
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Tue, February 5, 2008 - 9:20 AMI used to have to start an R75/5 in 20 degree weather. one of the tricks I learned was to drill a small hole in the airbox where it meets the rest of the engine, just big enough to accept the "stir stick" spigot for a can of wd-40 I kept in the tool tray. On a cold morning give the WD40 a half-second shot into the outside of the air filter element, and 10-15 tries with the kick turns into 1-5 tries with the kick. give it a whirl. -
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Thu, February 7, 2008 - 7:58 PMyeah ... its gotten to the point where it won't start in even 50 degree weather. I have tomorrow off and I'm taking it apart to see whats up ... something that just occurred to me. What about the air filter/s? I've never even looked at them. That could be filed in the "possible culprit" column don't you think? -
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Thu, February 7, 2008 - 10:14 PMUhh... Yeah. That could be a cause. You didn't say that part. -
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Fri, February 8, 2008 - 8:31 AMSorry ... even though I own a BMW I'm not perfect :) progress report later today
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Fri, February 8, 2008 - 11:26 AMIf three is more than one mouse nested in the air filter its a sure sign. -
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Sat, February 9, 2008 - 2:15 PMonly two mice... is that ok?
Really, air cleaner looks brand new. points look brand new. battery cable end was cracked (power side)... put new one on. plugs brand new.
I noticed when I started it without the intake tubes and air cleaner attached a big flame came out of the back of the left carburettor ... WTF is up with that... ? due to starting without air cleaner assembly?
Please advise
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Mon, February 11, 2008 - 9:46 AMHmmm... probably... I know that the ari-flow restriction that the intake-box-filter assemble do affect the carbs. (Even drilling holes in the intake box can affect the fuel - air-mixture). but I think ... and again take a grain of salt as I am no pro... that your mixture may be a bit high/rich. This may be a simple carb adjustment, with the caveat that you need to know how to correctly adjust your carbs. When you took off the filter box (more air in) it started and still had some unburnt fuel. If it flamed once, then it may be no biggy, but generally... not the thing you want to see.
I can't remember if you said you had done this recently but if you can't remember when the last time you adjusted your valves then its past time to do it. The fact that you had flame/exhaust gas coming out of your intake could be a badly set gap on your intake valve.
Anyway, if you want REAL and not just more shots in the dark, then go to the airheads site and email Oak or get on the airlist and post your problem... there are at least 10 guys that know their business well enough to diagnose this without breaking a sweat. -
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Mon, February 11, 2008 - 9:59 AMHey thanks! I got it running much better BTW ... but its still a little rough. -
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Tue, February 12, 2008 - 9:09 AMWell ... I actually got it to the point of starting the first time, every time . Not bad for a do it yourselfer. :)
Replace cracked end on battery cable (soldered and crimped it), checked air cleaner, checked points, (Both good) adjusted carbs, pulled the plugs and got them super clean with lacquer thinner and steel wool (they were a little sooty after all the carb adjusting), fixed loose battery box (bolts were put in incorrectly), pulled the oil pan ... cleaned it out , also oil pick up screen, new oil (damn, the old stuff was black!), oil filter etc. adjusted clutch ... spray silicone all cables etc. washed and and waxed ... Voila!
it runs better than when I first bought it and I bought from an old German guy that kept in uber pristine condition.
I still think it could run a little better ... but I've never had a bimmer before, maybe thats as good as it gets. valve adjustment will be next ... but I'll take it some where for that, I don't want to screw it up.
It's fine for the next couple of months I'm sure.
a couple of other things ... although I like the idea of keeping the bike all stock, Do they make an electronic ignition that replaces the points? Hopefully that fits inside the cover? I know they make such a beast for older cars.
Also ... what about the coils ... I read where the coils only last between 20,000 and 30.000 miles. My bike has 26,000 miles on it. Are there high performance coils out there to be purchased? Necessary or unnecessary?
Thanks! -
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Tue, February 12, 2008 - 10:05 AMYes, you can replace the point with an electronic ignition. I did it many years ago, after frying the points connections.
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Tue, February 12, 2008 - 11:37 AMYes, replacing/upgrading the starter system is fairly common on those older bikes as that was one of their weak points.
As for thinking it could run a little better... welcome to the world of airheads... If you aren't used to the sounds of a boxer engine, you will constantly think its "rattling a little too much". You will eventually learn to distinguish the good rattle from any bad rattles that emerge.
As for the valve adjustment... I really recommend learning to do it yourself as it is the one thing that you can do (next to oil changes) to keep the engine in top shape (about every 3000 miles for older bikes). It is VERY easy, like just a bit harder than changing a tire. It just takes a torque wrench an feeler guage set,a 10mm, and 2 12 mm wrenches, and a 15mm socket (on mine) and a flashlight .
First you must do it when the engine is totally cool. If you even start it up for a few minutes before hand you will not get it right. You remove the valve covers and plugs. Un-torque the six nuts 1/4 turn on the head (in a star pattern - see clymers or other refs for the full instructions) . Then you re-torque them in the same pattern. Then you go to the view-port on the engine and spin the rear wheel (in 4th or 5th gear) until you see the marks (- OT, I believe again see a full reference) This it Top Dead Center(TDC) for one cylinder. You will know which cylinder is on TDC by wiggling the valves one side will have play , the other will not. Check the valves on the side with play, Adjust the gaps if necessary. Exhaust in front, intake in rear. they use 2 different gauges. basically all it is is a very fine double nut adjustment, you use two 12mm (on mine) wrenches to loosen one nut from the other then adjust the bottom nut (like in 32ths of a turn.. or less) then tighten the top nut back down and test with the feeler gauge.. then should be a bit of grab but not tight and not just sliding through. This part takes a little finnesse and practice (not uncommon to have to repeat feeler/adjustment the process a few times).
When you get one side done rotate the wheel again until you see the OT mark come around again. then the other side will TDC and you will feel the play in the other cylinder. adjust and then when finished with that side, rotate the wheel a few turns to seat them and then got to OT on the first side again and check with the feeler gauge again (check both sides like before).
then you are done, put plugs back on, put on a new gasket on valve cover if its old. (I recommend the silicone ones... as you can reuse them a looong time.
OK... thats all from memory, so I again recommend that you get a ref manual for your bike. but don't let a valve adjustment scare you. Hell you cleaned your carbs! Taking my Carbs apart has always been something mysterious and scary to me.
Good luck -
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Tue, February 12, 2008 - 11:44 AMOh, I forgot to add... The valve adjustment will take you about an hour... a relaxed hour.. not rushed. I can do it in about 25 minutes if pressed, but I usually just kick back with some coffee and a smoke and the manual. The point is, first time, give yourself an hour to 1 1/2 hours. -
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Tue, February 12, 2008 - 11:53 AMHey Thanks ...
Now I get to buy a torque wrench! I've wanted one anyway.
I've adjusted valves on cars before so I guess I can manage. :)
ever try to rebuild a quadrojet? (GM 4 barrel) now thats a challenge! -
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Tue, February 12, 2008 - 4:48 PMNo, but when I was a teenager, my Ski Patrol adviser had a Jaguar E-type 12 cylinder. He tried to synch the carbs (6) himself once and almost imploded. Man when that thing was tuned though the torque of the engine made you feel like a towel being wrung out!
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 9:27 AMjust because a bike looks clean does not equate to it being ready
are you 1 or 2 x a year taking the carbs airbox and stuff apart cleaning em up and putting back together?
the carbs easily get old gas vernier in the workings that bugger everything up. i know my bings on the later airheads but perhaps getting a fresh 'kit' for each carb and replace the little parts.
i would not drill a whole in the airbox as that will let dirt/dust in
i have on colder days on hard starting motors (1974 trail bike) pull the plug and put a little carb cleaner into the cylander to richen the initial
wd40 is not good for the fuel system as it has other junk in it, i would only use carb cleaner which vaporizes and those vapors are very flamable and it wont leave a residue
let us know the results!
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 9:29 AMgiven that.. also when was the last time you went about and lubricated pivot points on suspension and drive shaft? the /5 is pretty stout but you know.
there should be a local to your area AIRHEAD spring tech day coming up... usually posted on airheads.org those are invaluable
reminds me, we need to organize ours in northern colorado! -
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Tue, February 19, 2008 - 7:52 PMThanks Justin
I've got it to the point where it's starting on the first time now :) It didn't seem to be any one thing ... replacing the hot end on the battery cable helped a little, so did changing the oil and adjusting the carbs. I also adjusted the clutch, cleaned, waxed and spray siliconed everything. i spent a long time adjusting the carbs until they were perfect ... that was suggested at the start of this thread by the woman from NY. Thanks! I think that helped a lot (sorry, drawing a blank on your name) The oil was really black ... the oil change seemed to help a lot also.
I've been meaning to take it down to Ventura to have a official tune up everything adjusted and oiled greased lubed day... (no official BMW mechanics here in Santa Barbara) but I've been lagging (like a year... yikes!)
I guess i just better figure out how to do it all myself. :) -
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Re: Hard starting "72 BMW R60/5
Wed, February 20, 2008 - 8:46 AMGood on ya! Thats the thing about airheads, ya mess with them long enough and voila! This is a classic mini-story of why I love these bikes and the folks that rides em.
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